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  1. #61
    Regular Member Gregsir's Avatar
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    4th Gen
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    Si-Vtec
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    Dec 2011
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    Queensland
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    Another member of the Honda family getting the Rwd treatment back home-

    http://www.driftireland.com/forum/sh...hlight=integra

  2. #62
    Junior Member Velvet's Avatar
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    Non Honda
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    Quote Originally Posted by SXC-84K View Post
    a well setup fwd civic will run circles around a poorly setup gtr or evo
    ...you MUST be joking. Maybe if the Evo was so poorly set-up they neglected to install the engine.

    I am not saying fwd is no good, but the POTENTIAL of fwd cars is far lower than rwd or awd. There is a very good reason that the majority of racing cars are rwd or awd, not fwd. Rwd cars have better weight distribution and can handle more power than fwd cars. Fwd cars have issues with torque-steer and understeer occurring in high-power applications. Modern systems to deal with these issues are essentially glorified TCS systems which blunt the performance of the engines in exchange for drivability.

    I won't directly reference people, but someone mentioned that they think fwd is better on the track? Would be curious why none of the V8 supercar teams opted for a fwd set-up then. F1 teams also. The reason is simple. Fwd cars put strain on their front tires BOTH entering and also exiting corners. The same wheels which need to brake and turn the car also need to accelerate the car afterwards. Rwd cars use their front tires entering corners and rear tires exiting. Therefore in the case of similar spec fwd and rwd cars, the fwd car would be the first to suffer from serious tire degradation. Don't get me wrong, the rear tires of the fwd car would be in excellent condition... but ultimately useless.

    Someone also said they would rather have 4ws than rwd. You can have both! The first road car with passive rear wheel steering was the Porsche 928, and that was a rwd V8.

    So... am I just hating on fwd cars? Not at all. They have their place. In terms of value for money, what you get for your cent, they are great. The cost of a performance rwd is significantly higher than a hot hatch or similar. I guess Toybaru are breaking into this market but still. You guys should enjoy your Preludes for what they are.... affordable little cars that are nice to drive and cheap to keep. Don't waste your time wishing that they are something they are not.


    If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.

  3. #63
    Silver Member curtis265's Avatar
    Generation
    5th Gen
    Model
    VTi-R
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    Nov 2010
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    Western Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    ...you MUST be joking. Maybe if the Evo was so poorly set-up they neglected to install the engine.

    I am not saying fwd is no good, but the POTENTIAL of fwd cars is far lower than rwd or awd. There is a very good reason that the majority of racing cars are rwd or awd, not fwd. Rwd cars have better weight distribution and can handle more power than fwd cars. Fwd cars have issues with torque-steer and understeer occurring in high-power applications. Modern systems to deal with these issues are essentially glorified TCS systems which blunt the performance of the engines in exchange for drivability.

    I won't directly reference people, but someone mentioned that they think fwd is better on the track? Would be curious why none of the V8 supercar teams opted for a fwd set-up then. F1 teams also. The reason is simple. Fwd cars put strain on their front tires BOTH entering and also exiting corners. The same wheels which need to brake and turn the car also need to accelerate the car afterwards. Rwd cars use their front tires entering corners and rear tires exiting. Therefore in the case of similar spec fwd and rwd cars, the fwd car would be the first to suffer from serious tire degradation. Don't get me wrong, the rear tires of the fwd car would be in excellent condition... but ultimately useless.

    Someone also said they would rather have 4ws than rwd. You can have both! The first road car with passive rear wheel steering was the Porsche 928, and that was a rwd V8.

    So... am I just hating on fwd cars? Not at all. They have their place. In terms of value for money, what you get for your cent, they are great. The cost of a performance rwd is significantly higher than a hot hatch or similar. I guess Toybaru are breaking into this market but still. You guys should enjoy your Preludes for what they are.... affordable little cars that are nice to drive and cheap to keep. Don't waste your time wishing that they are something they are not.


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  4. #64
    PA Janitor Bob's Avatar
    Generation
    3rd Gen
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    Si 4WS - B Spec
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    Jan 2006
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    Western Australia
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    The Falcon was driven by a 1 handed monkey while drinking a Chardonnay.
    Meanwhile Mr Ragealot transformed into a green hulk bashing the limiter in a desperate attempt to prove physics wrong.

    MR is where it's at. Did we learn nothing from Sir Brabham?

  5. #65
    Silver Member curtis265's Avatar
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    5th Gen
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    VTi-R
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    hey - well a 'setup' could refer to how well the driver is setup too lmzo
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  6. #66
    PA Expert ego's Avatar
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    ^^^

    Glad to see you agree!

    That Civic got owned really hard by a "v8 supercar" that didn't appear to realise it was in a race.

    You can see how hard he is having to work the steering wheel to keep it on the track and try to keep up with what is the motoring equivalent of a wheeled anvil driven at what i see to be a sedate pace.

    All different layouts will be faster than the other if you find one particular set of circumstances that favours one rather than the other.

    FWD is good for the road. Cheap to build, cheap to run and on the road you won't notice the difference.

    AWD as i have found out with the rex is phenomenal in wet conditions, but in the dry it blunts acceleration and uses fuel for no real benefit.

    RWD is great in the dry, but bring on a shower of rain or some leaves on the road etc and you will be swinging the rosaries around the car asking forgiveness for things you haven't done.

    I'm done here.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Sean628's Avatar
    Generation
    3rd Gen
    Model
    Si 4ws
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    Mar 2011
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    Victoria
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    Not defending fwd, it's just a layout, however a good setup is the money, bet most pp have watched this but worth repost:

  8. #68
    Silver Member curtis265's Avatar
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    Look - all I was trying to say is that the layout isn't 100% of the equation when it comes to laptimes. Perhaps a bad example.
    ”uoǝbunp ǝɥʇ oʇ
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  9. #69
    Senior Member conor07's Avatar
    Generation
    3rd Gen
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    Si 4WS turbobo bro
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    Oct 2011
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    Australian Capital Territory
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    i have since taken care of the fwd nes of my prelude


  10. #70
    Regular Member tassie_bb1's Avatar
    Generation
    4th Gen
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    VTEC
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    Dec 2013
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    Tasmania
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    The closest FWD vs RWD battle I've seen is the Jun Prelude vs the MCR S2000 Gunma touge battle. The 'lude only just wins though and there was a LOT more money sunk into that car, arguably had a much better driver, the S2K wasn't setup or running at 100% and it was all downhill so the power difference became much less important. The Amuse S2K camera car had no problems keeping up with either of them too.

    I'd never try and argue with someone that FWD is "better" than RWD, only that a proper FWD setup isn't the understeering mess that everyone believes it is. There is a very good reason that all the pinnacle motor sport classes are FR or MR layout, but that's not to say there aren't a bunch of FF classes that are fun as hell. Check out the Excel or Mirage cups, those guys have way too much fun in what is essentially grandma's Sunday driver.

    Saying all of that though, I would love to run against Project R on the track when it's ready

  11. #71
    BLOOOOOOOD!!!! Manabir's Avatar
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    AUII XR8 220
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    Victoria
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    My mates Focus ST whoops my XR8 on launch and corners, but tracks like Phillip Island I leave him for dead cause he just doesn't have the power for the straights.
    It is all about the car.
    The amount of tech in that thing getting the power to the wheels is ridiculous! It was about 10sec faster than me around Winton cause of all the corners and very short straights. (I just couldn't get the power to the ground around the corners without loosing traction...no traction control).
    RWD, FWD, AWD...it is all the drivers preference, what they want the car for, what is best for them. The ST is just what he needs cause it is a small car for driving in the city everyday but leaves the corners for dead if we do a cruise up through the ranges.
    The XR is what I need cause it has heaps of space for the kid and all his stuff, ability to tow a house (for tip runs and caravan when he is older), cheap to maintain and still HEAPS of fun for cruises. Yeah he gets away from me on the corners, but I am right on his arse again by the next corner.


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