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  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Generation
    5th Gen
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    Manual H22A
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    Oct 2011
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    Victoria
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    Exclamation 5th Gen N/A build

    Hi guys, been a long time since I've been here and posted, some shit has happened as of recent times, got my hours changed at work and really had no time or had better more important things to spend my time on. But here I am now!

    I have a 5th Gen Si, F22Z with about ~260K KM's on the clock.

    The auto gearbox lag is getting worse, is actually really bad when the car is running cold. The engine itself is still perfect however, have been keeping good care of it - I think it could probably still last ~60/100K+ KM's, but I could be wrong.

    I have some money at my disposal and was wondering whether or not I should do an all motor N/A build without forced induction. I'm still on my P-Plates and am in the process of applying for the Victorian Police, so super-charging or turbo-charging is definitely not on my list.

    My questions (to those who know anything about building motors) are as follows:

    • Should I buy a H22 engine?
    • Should I buy a H22 half-cut?
    • Should I source a manual gearbox?


    Buying a VTi-R Prelude for parts is an option, but if I can find a manual gearbox in good condition, a loom and a halfcut VTi-R, then I'd prefer to do that. I don't want to have yet another car lying around being used for parts if I can avoid it. The conversion from F22 to H22 will probably be done with a few mates as they know a whole heap more about engines than I do.

    This will be an ongoing project for a few years probably as I'm also in the process of saving for a house deposit to purchase one at the end of the year, so that is my #1 priority.

    Also - if you have nothing good to say, then don't say anything at all. I don't want to be reading comments such as "just buy a bolt on turbo kit", because as stated earlier (if you read), it's not a feasible option.

    Thanks in advance, I look forward to reading a few replies (hopefully). Good to be back.

    Gurhan.

    EDIT: Yes, to those who are wondering, I am aware of the to-be costs involved in this project. Whether it is worth it or not is solely up to me. And the answer is yes, it's worth it.
    Last edited by Gee; 6th May 2012 at 04:38 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Sean628's Avatar
    Generation
    3rd Gen
    Model
    Si 4ws
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Victoria
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    945
    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post

    My questions (to those who know anything about building motors) are as follows:

    • Should I buy a H22 engine?
    • Should I buy a H22 half-cut?
    • Should I source a manual gearbox?


    it's worth it.
    Then you only need a low km manual half cut with h22, the other 2 options just don't make sense to me.

  3. #3
    Gold Member SnowWhiteLude's Avatar
    Generation
    3rd Gen
    Model
    JDM Si 4WS
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Victoria
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    2,450
    Unless you are certain that you want to build a turbo down the track, just run this engine into the ground and then decide about building a motor for forced induction when you need to replace it. Chasing NA power without deep deep pockets is not feasible, so "building" a NA monster means A LOT of cash and time if you want good returns Kw wise.

    As for going manual, again you are probably better off selling your current ride, using the extra cash you have on hand, finding a manual bb6 with a H22a, and moving on - doing the swap is probably the most expensive option you have TBH.


  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Generation
    5th Gen
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    Manual H22A
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    Oct 2011
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    Victoria
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    Yeah I know Snow but like I said, this will be a project for a few years. If I'm changing engine internals then will VTEC make that much of a difference? Or will it be the engine with lower K's that will? I'll probably just source a low KM H22 soon, manual tranny isn't so high on the list as of yet. Or if I can snatch a half cut for a decent price then I could do that too. The body of my Prelude is very straight but even if I was to sell it as it is, I'll never get the money that I spent on it back. Will not be going FI, all motor N/A only.

  5. #5
    Regular Member mr prelude's Avatar
    Generation
    3rd Gen
    Model
    Si 4ws
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Queensland
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    361
    IMO if you are going to do this over a few years then i would say, go and get your self a h22 block and head and go from there slowly building it up when you have time and money.
    then buy the time your few year time limit it up you shold have a mad as all hell NA H22

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Generation
    5th Gen
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    Manual H22A
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    Oct 2011
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    Victoria
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    If I can source a low KM VTi-R engine I'll probably buy it and drop it on a pallet, and leave it in my garage. Should I milk as much as I can out of the F22Z6 and build the H22/buy parts for the H22 and when I'm ready to (and money permits) work on it, then I will?

  7. #7
    Silver Member diMii's Avatar
    Generation
    4th Gen
    Model
    VTEC
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    Oct 2008
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    --Australia--
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    1,326
    Work h22 ,make it a weapon , by the time its finished you'll have full license , slap on turbo. Have one quick lude

  8. #8
    Regular Member pure_oxyg3n's Avatar
    Generation
    4th Gen
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    Sep 2008
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    Queensland
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    439
    Man I'd just go buy urself an engine stand and a low km h22. Keep driving ur f22 and gettibg the most out of it. When she blows u will have ur h22 ready and sitting there ( maybe with some work done) and if not just use the money on some bolt ons. The power from f22 to h22 should be enough to keep u happy. As for auto to manual conversion IMO I think it's alot of money and fluffin around and prob not worth the money.

  9. #9
    Gold Member Pacman's Avatar
    Generation
    4th Gen
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    Vti-R
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    Sep 2008
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    Queensland
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    2,698
    It'd be crazy to do 2 seperate conversions.
    Swapping the F22 for a H22 then later swapping the auto for the manual.
    Grab a half cut, then you have all your parts.
    Throw the motor on a stand and get to work.
    build ya monster as slow as you like, but when it's time to throw in anything, throw in both the motor and gearbox at the same time.

    The motor is a simpler swap than the gear box from what I understand. Talk to "Raysian", he's done the auto to manual conversian himself.
    (And he's not a bad bloke for a 5th gen owner..... LOL)

    Anyhow, good luck with it. hope you get what you are after from the project.

    I will say though. All motor is a very expensive way to build power. Boosting is expensive enough, N/A is even worse.
    It's been said that if you want to build a boosted lude, lift the bonnet and fill the engine bay with money.
    If you want to build it N/A, fill the boot as well.

    But it's all up to you mate. we're all talking about building YOUR car here mate. and nobody understands what you want better than you.

    Most people on here don't get my car either. it's too "FRINGE" for them. but it's MY car...... As this is yours.

    Make ya plans carefully, then stick to them.....
    http://www.preludeaustralia.com/foru..._view&id=12025
    Link to my garage.^^^^

    When words fail, VTec speaks!

    Quote Originally Posted by EXO8IC View Post
    My car is a twin turbo and has a blow valve with another little valve thing attached which silences that WOOSH (which I HATE) but it makes more of a strange sucking noise which can be heard quite loudly from my vents on the bonnet. It's quite odd...

  10. #10
    PA Resident SAKI's Avatar
    Generation
    4th Gen
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    Si
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    May 2006
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    New South Wales
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    3,987
    As has been said, If you decide to swap to the H22 - swap the gearbox at the same time. Also don't bother buying just a motor, that's only useful if you already have a H22 equipped car. For a conversion, you NEED the halfcut. It will have everything from brakes to driveshafts to loom. Things you would otherwise have to buy separately and spend more money in the end. This in itself wouldn't be that cheap, but i would be hesitant to just chuck it in without doing anything to the motor, especially if you plan on keeping it for a while. I would at least change the clutch/water pump/timing belt/rear main seal/cam seals. Common maintenance items that are much easier with the motor out. I would even consider getting a cheap ebay rebuild kit. If you want more power down the track, you can re-evaluate your options then, but at this stage i wouldn't do more than the stock H22 rebuild + manual conversion.

    Good luck with whatever you decide and keep us updated!
    Quote Originally Posted by brash22 View Post
    You sir are mad. Like lock you in the nuthouse mad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabir View Post
    You sir are a prelude obsessed freak.
    Quote Originally Posted by hiru View Post
    you sir, are a prelunatic.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Son of Eevil's Avatar
    Generation
    5th Gen
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    Sep 2010
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    Excuse me while I post my usual response into another "conversion" thread.

    Sell yours buy a manual VTi-R save yourself a tonne of time and money, it will cost you less money and less time to do it this way.

    You've said that a home deposit is your #1 priority so get yourself a manual H22 the cheapest way you can by buying one, then you don't have to worry about compliance, you also get better brakes and a sunroof!

    You'd be nuts to do a conversion!

  12. #12
    PA Resident SAKI's Avatar
    Generation
    4th Gen
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    Si
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    May 2006
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    New South Wales
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    He has an Si with a busted auto... no offense to the owner, but it's near worthless. If you do the work yourself, you could have it finished for the same cost as buying a manual vtir + selling the si, and get a shitload of priceless experience along the way.

    Don't get me wrong, i usually tout the "sell it and buy a better one" speech, but i reckon this bloke has at least half a brain about him, and he's got experienced mates to help, so i'm going to the recommend going for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by brash22 View Post
    You sir are mad. Like lock you in the nuthouse mad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabir View Post
    You sir are a prelude obsessed freak.
    Quote Originally Posted by hiru View Post
    you sir, are a prelunatic.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Son of Eevil's Avatar
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    5th Gen
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    Excuse the blasphemy but considered buying something cheaper? If your saving you could put an extra $5k in your pocket by buying something else.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Generation
    5th Gen
    Model
    Manual H22A
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    Oct 2011
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    Victoria
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    Thank you all for your replies! The auto tranny isn't THAT bad (it was rebuilt about two years ago, have receipts for $1500 just for the auto rebuild), but for something that was rebuilt just over two years ago, I find it hard to believe it would be this bad. I don't drive it hard knowing the auto boxes in Preludes are quite bad. I have budgeted about $11K - $15K to spend on engine internals for this build, over the span of two to three years. SAKI understands where I'm coming from, however, I have had some difficulty finding a half cut H22 in the past few months, and if I do find one it's either interstate or overseas (which isn't feasible). If worse comes to worst then I will find a VTi-R in the exact same colour with low KM's and a manual tranny, swap over my suspension setup, headlights, get my exhaust re-done to fit the VTi-R (I think they need to be longer for the VTi-R) and then sell the Si.

    I am aware that building a Prelude to the 220-240kW range will probably cost just shy of $15K, if not a little over, but this car has true sentimental value to me (and it's not just because I love my car), and like I said, the above is only valid if worse comes to worst.

    FYI - My Si came with a sunroof, and even if I was to turbo or supercharge, I'd need to change the transmission because the auto wouldn't hold up even on a good day for the power I'm aiming for, and I'd also have to change most of the engine internals so nothing snaps, anyways.

    Let's also not forget that even if I was to sell my Si right now, I'd never get the money that I've spent on it back.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Generation
    5th Gen
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    Manual H22A
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    Oct 2011
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    Victoria
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    575
    I've done my research and am now thinking of swapping my F22 head to a H22 head. Can I get some opinions on this?

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